CF Mumbo Jumbo

Comments

Marko Simic

Hi Mark,

For all these years watching at your still image (avatar mostly :)) this is first time I could see you "animated".

Beside this trivia, it was nice you to hear your opinion on these real life, non-techie topics.

What I didn't hear and come as specific of your job is:

As a developer who most of its time work alone (at least I see it like that), don't you miss a team - living human beings surrounding you?

You were talking here about software architect job. And as one of highest pinnacles architect need to conquer, you and Tim mentioned "managing human relationship" (free citation).

Isn't your way of working in collision with this mission?

Don't get me wrong here, please. What's intriguing me, is that I'm seeing more and more extroverted people, excellent professionals, who are leaving team work in favor of solo consulting work.

In your opinion is it result of disappointment in other people as professionals or, after you conquer an pinnacle, you are not finding it challenging anymore?

Thank you.

PS

It would be unpolite no to thank to host of this show. Thanks Tim :)

August 15, 2011, 5:26 PM

Tim Cunningham

Marko,

Thanks for your comments. I can't answer for Mark, so I will make sure he knows your comments are here.

I will say from my perspective, in my job, the people skills is most difficult aspect of the job. It is a rare person who excels at the logical programming parts as well as the people skills.

Tim

August 15, 2011, 6:44 PM

Mark Mandel

Interesting questions!

I think let's take this question by question.

"As a developer who most of its time work alone (at least I see it like that), don't you miss a team - living human beings surrounding you?"

Well, I think there is a definite distinction between "working alone" and "living human beings surrounding you", and they are separate, very distinct things. Technically, as a contractor, I "work alone", and am often not surrounded by "living human beings" in that my office is in my house, and the only company I have is my wife (who has her office across the hall), and the dog (who is on the floor chewing on something). But I wouldn't say that I work alone, well, ever.

Even before I was managing the team I am for the project I work on, there is always at least one other person you are working with on a project - the client. From there you are often also outsourcing certain skills or even workloads to other people. So in some case it may be you are just 1-1 with the client, it could also end up being 1-3 if there are multiple stakeholders or 3-1 if you need graphic design work done, or copy written, or any other skill you don't personally possess. So while you may be working in a physical space "alone", you never are really working in isolation.

So therefore to your question "Isn't your way of working in collision with this mission?" - not at all. In fact, if anything, not being physically present a lot of the time with your co-workers, be they clients, or other team members, means you have to work HARDER at being communicative effectively, as otherwise, details can easily get lost in the cracks.

"What's intriguing me, is that I'm seeing more and more extroverted people, excellent professionals, who are leaving team work in favor of solo consulting work." I think you're perspective here is a little skew-iff. I think what you are seeing is people leaving team work, to go to consulting, so that can work on MORE and WIDER VARIED teams. Doing consulting has allowed me, personally, to work with a stack of people I would otherwise never have come across, and had clients that were doing thing I couldn't have encountered in my previous full time positions. One of the draw cards for consulting for me, was that flexibility and opportunity to work with all sorts of different people.

I hope that answers your questions. I'd also be curious to know where the opinion that doing consulting meant you weren't working with anyone else came from, as I think, in practice, that is often not the case.

August 15, 2011, 7:48 PM

Tim Cunningham

Reading Marks reply, it triggered a thought. My company has 80 developers. Most in in our office at HQ. They RARELY talk to anyone about CF outside the employee pool. That is part of the reason a over a year ago, I started reaching outside our little bubble to talk to other DEVs, via conferences, twitter, beer tastings, User Groups etc.. I was exposed to so many viewpoints and skill sets I did not even know existed.

I can only imagine the different experiences a solo contractor gets from going t team to team and customer to customer.

August 15, 2011, 7:55 PM

Marko Simic

Mark, thank you for answers. Tim, thank you for your input too.

Taking this as subjective discussion, won't dig much further, just elaborate my thoughts.

I noticed that I created an impression to have some kind of animosity toward consulting profession. That is absolutely not the case.

My impressions coming from talking with other consultants (and not that many). Of course, we are all different, but something that I found as common property is "they" don't like to be a "part of pack" (or "nerd herd", depending what type of TV show you prefer :)). That's where my "solo" observation coming from.

Tim. I am working for company with 80+ developers locally, 110 globally, and we have same problem here. Colleagues don't share professional experience and ideas. It's typical behavior for this type of company. Developers are, mostly, introverted. Beside that, I think this is problem of "company culture" and working environment. Something hat company should change.

In my team is quite different situation. We debate and discuss about work and ideas we have, on daily bases. And it's not the case because we have so much more to say or because we are smarter than other, but because we are not ashamed to say what we think to each other. Ultimately, we are part of same herd :)

To be honest, this is "sword with 2 blades", but so far, benefit are far greater than the consequences.

Mark. I spend my youth living with dog, so i know how beautiful company they are :)

August 16, 2011, 6:29 AM